X-Factor #1-4 - VIPER's Nest

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X-Factor #1-4 - VIPER's Nest

Post by Spectrum »

Recap:

X-Factor #1 - Snake Pit (Part One)

The issue begins with a recount of heroes disappearing for the GSVC. These include Brute, Captain USA, Nebula, Silver Arrow, and Manta Man(?!) (He was the leader of the Guardians, I believe, before we merged the two worlds and combined/eliminated some members. He was based on the Villains & Vigilantes character).

(Specs - Can't say that I remember much about Manta Man. Hornet is mentioned just a few files after this one, so that does lead me to believe the Hornet was always the Guardians leader. At least he was to me. Maybe Manta Man was just a member of the Guardians?)

In old XF #8 it mentions MM (along with Hornet) as one of 5 captured Guardians (supposedly slain) by Timemaster. They then appear again in 11. Hornet retires in 12 and MM is mentioned to want to start a new team in Chicago (the Crusaders, which was to replace the team there that was wiped out when their base was swallowed!). I think he was written out in our merge, but he was always the leader! :wink:

Specs - I guess that just goes to show how much of an impact Manta Man made on me! :D Which is probably why we wrote him out. I liked the costume and the attitude, just not the name, otherwise we would have kept him!

Spectrum returns to the XF base (A converted school house) and finds there had been some excitement while he was gone. King Cobra snuck into the base in an attempt to capture Morning Star aided by his henchman Boa Constrictor. Blizzard managed to drive the villians away with his cold powers.

Also a call came in from Captain Lightning of the Superior Seven and they asked Spectrum to call them back. Seems that during a raid on a VIPER base, the S7 learned the location of a VIPER Nest in LA. Speed is of the essence to attack his Nest before it is abandoned.

Spec calls up the S7 and gets a hold of Maverick. Mav is shook up and we learn that Captain Lightning was captured for the GSVC and that Timemaster killed the Comet. Mav is overwraught by emotion and hangs up, but does have the S7 computers send XF the Nest information.

The information provides XF some insider knowledge on how VIPER operates and the special communication crystal used to connect the Nests. The issue ends with the team deciding how to deal with this situation.

Comments:

Now that seems similiar, does it not? X-Factor #11-12 on the site are based on the old XF #1-3. In the revamp, the S7 backstory -- specifically Comet's death and how they got the Nest info-- was reworked in Young Champions #1-3. Coincidently, this was all set up by the 'One From the HART' scenario in both the old and new stuff.
Last edited by Spectrum on Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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X-Factor #2

Post by Spectrum »

Recap:

X-Factor #2 - Snake Pit (part two)

Shockwave (who's original first name was Julie, not Sara) & Blizzard scout out the area around the VIPER's Nest. They discover the garage entrance and the heroes decide to go in that way.

They drive the team van up to a place near the garage entrance and wait. Shadow Queen uses her powers to slip inside the garage with the intent of opening up the entranceway.

While waiting for Shadow Queen, another van pulls into the alley holding plain clothes VIPER agents. Threats are made and the thugs pull guns. Shockwave intervenes by picking up their van and holding over her head. The thugs aren't impressed and open fire. Shockwave is hit, looses her balance, and drops the van on herself!

Shadow Queen opens up the entrance having dealt with the guards on duty. The monorail to the base is discovered along with the long tunnel. To prevent this being used as an escape route, Shockwave and Morning Star rip up the tracks.

The team moves down the tunnel, Blizzard carrying Morning Star and Shadow Queen on his ice slide. Spectrum carries Shockwave. (Carries!!??)

VIPER agents ambush the team, led by Dragonfly. The heroes quickly defeat the thugs and continue on down the long tunnel.

Blizzard complains about the tunnel going on forever. Shadow Queen thinks its cozy like a tunnel of love. Shockwave tries not to toss her cookies.

Brick attacks next and takes on Morning Star. The team continues on leaving the lavender clad heroine to slug it out with the Brick.

The rest of the team nears the entrance to the base when the mines in the tunnel are blown, temporarily burying the heroes. Shockwave uses her vibration attack to tunnel out of the cave-in and into the Nest itself.

The fighting continues as VIPER agents come out of the woodwork. Morning Star shows up to lend a hand as the team breaches the command center for the base. Spectrum goes to grab the Communication Crystal and is attacked by someone using cold powers. He thinks it's Blizzard, but...
"This is no joke. The party's over mister. And the name's not Blizzard... It's Icicle!!"
Comments:

Again, while this all played out differently, the events are similar to the X-Factor re-do. Just a lot more heroes and villains involved in the new version with a lot more strategy used as well.
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X-Factor #3

Post by Spectrum »

Recap:

X-Factor #3 - Snake Bit

Spectrum is confronted by Icicle in the Nest Command Center. He gives his impassioned speech and manages to convince Icicle to change sides. The Nest Leader is not amused and destroys the Communication Crystal.
"Oh, how touching! Just as I feared: that little mongrel would desert us as soon as someone suckered her into it. You may have the upper hand for now, hero, but VIPER is many. In the end, you too will be bitten. That tarnishes your victory, hero."
The Nest Leader flees but is ultimately captured by Shockwave. Again, he is not amused.
"How demeaning! Beaten by a woman! This sucks!!"
It's all over but the fighting now. PRIMUS shows up to cart the bad guys away. Spectrum takes responsibility for Icicle and PRIMUS does nothing for the moment.

Days go past and the team relaxes. Morning Star asks Spectrum out to dinner under the pretext of getting to know her teammates better. (Oh, that Denise is a sly one! And Spec's not particularly observant!)

The two discuss team matters and decide to set up combat training drills. 'Star also mentions that an old acquantance of hers, Jonathon Overstreet, is owner of the Overstreet Museum and has asked the team to be on hand for the grand opening of a special exhibit.

The team's first combat drills are held the next morning. Sque is a no show and Blizzard is heavily hung over after a night of partying with Sque. Morning Star almost knocks him out during the drills.

Shadow Queen finally shows up and gets reprimanded for not participating in the team drills. She brushes everyone off.
"Oh, I thought I'd take a dip in the pool instead. It's so much more soothing than a silly fight. Surely you didn't expect me to take part in such a demeaning exercise."
Later that day, Julie (Shockwave) visits Jim with a problem:
"I can't take it anymore. She's driving me crazy! I've already made up my mind about this, so don't try to change it. Either she goes or I do. I won't be on the same team and live in the same building with that-- that hussy! I'm sorry for putting you on the spot, but there's no getting around it. (Pause) I'm going to go pack my things."
Comments:

The end of the VIPER's Nest raid played out very differently. For one thing, the Nest Leader escaped in the new version and the Nest later became the setting for Terror Unlimited's raid. (TU never existed in the old stuff.)

Another thing was PRIMUS didn't simply let Icicle out of their sight until they decided what to do with her. Just one of example of something that looked back upon in hindsight made no sense and was written out in the new stuff. There are hundreds of things such as this that were changed.

Some of the dialogue was lifted from this file and used in the new stuff.

The Empress replaced Shadow Queen in the new stuff as Shockwave's source of annoyment. Fortunately, things didn't come to a head for Sara like this as they did for Julie!

SIMON also appeared in this issue, so I'm guessing that he was introduced back in BA at some point. Where I'm not sure. Coincidently, DUKE the S7 version was introduced in the new stuff. If Captain Lightning was going to give XF SIMON as a gift, it just made sense for them to already have one. Thus DUKE was concieved.
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X-Factor #4

Post by Spectrum »

Recap:

X-Factor #4 - "Prelude"

Faced with the prospect of having Shockwave quit the team, Specs asks Julie to wait and not do something rash. Julie agrees and Specs goes to see Shadow Queen. Having little choice, Spec kicks Sque off the team. Sque leaves in a huff.

PRIMUS makes their decision about Icicle. In exchange for all her VIPER knowledge, Icicle is placed on a probationary period. If she violates her probation, then PRIMUS will throw the book at her, the team, and Specs in particular.

The team's roster is now: Spectrum, Morning Star, Shockwave, Icicle, and a very disgruntled Blizzard. Seems that Sque never told Bliz that she was left and pretty much dropped him cold (pun intended).

Comments:

This was a short little issue. In fact, when compared to the new stuff, all the old files were very short. For the most part, the old files were written in a modified script form and not in true story form. As an example of what I mean, here's the entire Spec & Shockwave scene from this issue:
Shockwave - "I can't take it anymore. She's driving me crazy! I've already made up my mind about this, so don't try to change my mind. Either she goes or I do. I won't be on the same team and live in the same building with that-- that hussy! I'm sorry for putting you on the spot, but there's no getting around it. (Pause) I'm going to go pack my things."

She starts to leave.

Jim - "Julie, wait. Let me see what I can do before you do something rash. Somehow, this can be worked out. I had a feeling something like this was coming. I just didn't know it would be so soon. Just stay here until I get back."
So basically, we simply identified the speaker and then supplied descriptions inbetween the dialogue. It was a type of short hand we used on the files that cut down on space and allowed more to accomplish.

Another time saver was to simply recap something that may not be that interesting. For instance, the majority of the what to do with Icicle part of the file was skipped over and went straight to the results.

These are another difference between the new files where most everything is played out and there are much more descriptions of what is going on. Our writing did improve as time went on and some files were actually written out as stories as opposed to a modified script.
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Post by fanchergw »

I'm finding this all very interesting. Many of the changes that have been made make a lot of sense and really add to the story. It's also easy to see the parallels between the versions and nice to note that you were able to build on the previous framework, rather than having to recreate from scratch. It must be very handy to have all of those old notes to work from. I can think of some old face-to-face games I played in from which it would be very cool to have some notes like that.

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Post by Spectrum »

Then we've accomplished one of our goals in the redo: that being to make it all make much more sense than when we originally did it! It is odd to have notes of this caliber for an RPG. Its just the very unusual way this all played out. The old files were our starting point for the revamp. From there we made a great many changes and then worked out from there. What was nice is that there are characters that have a future history to them. So, it's not a matter of making stuff up as we go along, but having a definite long term goal. Such as the Huntress and her power troubles and the solution to it. The Firestar/Starfire situation is another one.

Thus far we've only scratched the surface of what makes up the 'old stuff'. For the curious, there were over 290 files by the end. They broke down like this:

Avengers - 66 complete issues. 67 is partially written, along with portions of #'s 72-74. There were 6 annuals.

Defenders - 32 complete issues. There were some outlines for future issues, but none were ever started.

Enchantress - 22 complete issues. Was in a long storyline that was supposed to end around 24 or 25. At that point it was merged with Muskateer.

Huntress - 16 complete issues. Many of these issues were rewrites of stories from the comics and were deleted from our history. Much of her old material has already been covered in the new stuff.

Muskateer - 28 issues, 3 annuals. Became Muskateer & the Enchantress with #25. Very little of this material has even been touched upon yet.

Spectrum - 13 Complete issues with 2 Annuals. Actually, this one started out incorporating several Spectrum mini-series under one umbrella. That took up about the first 8 issues. Starting with 9, I was writing Spec's adventures, none of which have yet to come to pass.

Troubleshooters - 11 complete issues. Like Spectrum, this one started out as an umbrella title for individual mini-series. The first was Photon and that was redone on the site. Then came 2 Spinnerette mini's, the second of which was incomplete.

X-Factor - 57 complete Issues with 6 Annuals. Some of this material has occurred on the site, but a lot still remains.

In addition, there were 3 campaign wide crossovers that took up another 30 issues. They were "The Domino Effect", "Operation: Annihilation!", & "Pyramid of Darkness".

Specs - I also forgot a 4th Crossover that was called "Come Endless Darkness". There was also a partial 1st Issue of Strikeforce that was set right before or right after Muskateer & the Enchantress getting married.

As if that campaign wasn't enough there was the 5 years I ran stuff on Q-Link. The flagship Champions title, Crusaders, had over 230 posts to it! So basically, I'm keeping 3 whole campaigns in my head!

Anyway, there's a whole lot more material to come. Some of it is not going to be recapped as in depth as the VIPER's Nest stuff as it's stuff we're going to redo. So this whole area is going to be kind of hit and miss for a while.

Glad you're enjoying all this behind the scenes stuff! :D
Last edited by Spectrum on Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Spectrum »

Also, as Muskateer noted our two games were initially seperate. Spectrum's adventures started about 1.5 to 2 years before Muskateer's did. About another year later we simply decided to merge the games and create a common universe. SO, there was already a great deal of editing even before the revamp. The revamp just shoved the process further along, removing even more existing comic book characters in the process. More of those kind of details in the stuff yet to come!

Oh, and you're getting close to another increase in rank Gordon! 5 more posts to go!
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Post by Muskateer »

Yes, we went through a big revamp before we even got to this update/improvement. Specs used a lot of existing comic book characters like Spider-Man, Spider Woman, the Wasp, Iron Man, etc. Almost all of these were written out by the time we got to this point. Some were eliminated in the merge and the rest when we decided to do this re-write. Most of my characters that were written out were original, but either not designed or poorly designed characters. A lot of those had been made for the original (Quazon/Quazoff) campaign and were little more than filler or else redundant.

The current revamp has given us a definite opportunity to improve on some great ideas that we had many years ago. There are some great stories in that old stuff. It was just never developed so deeply in most cases. This time we have a chance to make the great stories truly great. There were some good ideas that didn't get the proper treatment originally, like the Arena and especially the GSVC. Then there are ideas that didn't turn out the way we wanted: the Domino Effect series was one of those. Finally we had the chance to completely eliminate the things that didn't make sense or were blatant rip-offs of other things.

All in all we have had such room for improvement and building on the blocks that had been originally laid. It's a great opportunity. We are enjoying these stories as much as, if not more than, our readers!
:D
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Post by Muskateer »

Glad you're enjoying the background info, Gordon! There's almost a file's worth of writing here in the explanation behind the scenes!

Originally I used most of the moduals that existed for Hero Games, so those mostly happened on the West Coast, which was more my domain. Later stuff was mostly owned by Specs and therefore the East Coast Heroes tended to do more of the later stuff. In this revamp, it may not be that obvious.

Also, the East Coast teams tended to have more characters that Specs liked and/or made and the same for me on the West Coast. Since we were writing those areas, we tended to use our characters mostly. Just the way it developed. That is changing in this revamp as well, but the basics are still there.
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Post by Muskateer »

Some of the things I remember about this period for XF:

The plan to blackmail Dallas never was played out. In fact, it never really got much mention at all. Just sort of an 'oh BTW'.

I always liked Icicle and kept looking for ways for her to be rehabilitated. It took a couple tries and finally a drastic result by forcing the issue inside the Viper's Nest. Specs didn't jump on the first opportunity strongly enough, but it worked out in the end.

We'll see the Overstreet Museum show up again in the new stuff at some point.

SIMON was always very naive, while at the same time very intelligent. You could say he was particularly literal throughout his appearances, with a definite English accent in his speaking. It was never really touched on, but that's how he always spoke in my head.

I've never been very fond of DUKE, but then I can't really stand John Wayne much. I don't like the cowboy theme anything very much and it's annoyingly exaggerated. But Specs liked the idea, so never did argue against him.


We made Icicle's probation much more strict in the new stuff. She got off lucky the first time.

There were quite a few times when an entire file's worth of writing in the new stuff was written in a paragraph or just a few sentences. It was much easier then, and we often only wrote things that happened to the characters. Very little was behind the scenes at the early stages. In fact for Spectrum and X-Factor, it was intentionally written like this, since it was mostly like playing. So anything that happened outside of Spectrum's direct reference was usually just mentioned, instead of written out. The new way is much better!
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Post by Spectrum »

Yes, we went through a big revamp before we even got to this update/improvement. Specs used a lot of existing comic book characters like Spider-Man, Spider Woman, the Wasp, Iron Man, etc.
I'll go into all that in greater detail when I start the Avengers Folder.
The current revamp has given us a definite opportunity to improve on some great ideas that we had many years ago. There are some great stories in that old stuff. It was just never developed so deeply in most cases. This time we have a chance to make the great stories truly great.
The same with me as well. The WereHuntress stuff for one. In fact, much of that was done in 1(!) single issue in the old stuff! Likewise the resolution of the GSVC was done in 2 issues of X-Factor! Likewise, there are stories that won't be readdressed because they don't make much sense now in hindsight. The Operation: Annihilitation mini is one of those. It calls for a great deal of stupidity on the heroes part to make it work and it would be even worse given the current state of things!

(True. It needed the premise that XF could be considered vigilantes, if not outright criminals. Similar to the X-Men. And even with that it was a bunch of jumping to conclusions and outright bad decisions.)

Specs - Actually, it was the first meeting between XF & the Avengers. The premise called for each team to believe the other to have attacked a goverment installation and killed everyone inside. So, the 2 teams run into each other outside the installation and go at it. I guess no one though to pick up the phone and call the other to find out if this was true or not. Its a situation made even worse now considering that some of the people on both teams were once teammates themselves! :shock:
Originally I used most of the moduals that existed for Hero Games, so those mostly happened on the West Coast, which was more my domain. Later stuff was mostly owned by Specs and therefore the East Coast Heroes tended to do more of the later stuff. In this revamp, it may not be that obvious.
More stuff to be touched on when it comes time to do the Avengers.
Also, the East Coast teams tended to have more characters that Specs liked and/or made and the same for me on the West Coast. Since we were writing those areas, we tended to use our characters mostly. Just the way it developed. That is changing in this revamp as well, but the basics are still there.
Which is why everyone outside of Spectrum on X-Factor was created or modified by Muskateer and everyone on the Avengers outside of Muskateer was created by me. So, Muskateer wrote X-Factor & Spectrum, while I wrote Avengers & Muskateer. Of course the only catch with all of this was that Muskateer sounded like Spectrum, and Spectrum came across more like Muskateer! :shock:

(yeah, that was always an odd occurance, but we didn't have the chance to put our own words in our mouths too often.)

Now they all sound like they should. Even thougth I do most of the writing, Muskateer does make changes to dialogue for himself and any of the characters he created. It's a case not so much changing what they say, but rather the way it is said.

(I now have more of the polishing stage: editing, embellishing, etc. Been awhile since I wrote a file from start to finish.)
The plan to blackmail Dallas never was played out. In fact, it never really got much mention at all. Just sort of an 'oh BTW'.
Although I do remember that great title for one of the BA's: "A Fist Full of Dallas!" I was always waiting for the sequel: "For a Few Dallas' More!"
I always liked Icicle and kept looking for ways for her to be rehabilitated. It took a couple tries and finally a drastic result by forcing the issue inside the Viper's Nest. Specs didn't jump on the first opportunity strongly enough, but it worked out in the end.
Did I ever mention how dense I was? :wink:
We'll see the Overstreet Museum show up again in the new stuff at some point.
That's one of the things I want to tackle in the post XF25 stuff. Look for a new development with Black Paladin in that one! :twisted:
SIMON was always very naive, while at the same time very intelligent. You could say he was particularly literal throughout his appearances, with a definite English accent in his speaking. It was never really touched on, but that's how he always spoke in my head.
I've always like SIMON. So much so that I feel guilty about giving him the nickname Simple. I can't imagine SIMON with a English accent. (Think about C3PO and you have SIMON's personality to a degree. He's always had an English accent! Just not so pronounced to appear in the writing.) Although his habit of talking to himself in the old stuff is rather amusing. :D (That needs to be touched on more in the new files. SIMON always seemed to make an appearance in every file that the team was anywhere near their base.)

Spec - And still does. SIMON is in XF 20 & 21.
I've never been very fond of DUKE, but then I can't really stand John Wayne much. I don't like the cowboy theme anything very much and it's annoyingly exaggerated. But Specs liked the idea, so never did argue against him.
"It works Mate! The fat one balances out the two skinny ones!"

There are things that we don't agree on, but that's probably always going to be true. Basically, whoever created the character has the final word on anything regarding them. Since the S7 didn't really appear all that much, there won't be many more DUKE sightings.
Last edited by Spectrum on Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fanchergw »

Although I do remember that great title for one of the BA's: "A Fist Full of Dallas!" I was always waiting for the sequel: "For a Few Dallas' More!"
I'm sorry, but this is histerical! Gotta remember this one...
Since the S7 didn't really appear all that much, there won't be many more DUKE sightings.
Can't say I'm too surprised by this; the Superior Six seem to exist mostly to draw guest shots from. (Can you say: Sorceress? Sure, I knew you could.)

On the other hand, I really would like to see more of the Guardians, but I've said that before... Might be interesting to see what you would do with the Protectors, but I know ya'll are moving away from characters you didn't create.

Okay, so "Operation: Annihilation!" was a bust. Would either of the other 2 crossovers be worth adding to the site here someday?

Gordon

PS Not to be annoying, but the correct spelling is "module", not "modual". I wouldn't normally mention this, but it's really starting to bug me. Sorry, I tend to be kind of wierd about this sort of thing.
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Post by Spectrum »

I always liked the "Fist Full of Dallas" title which was why I remembered it. It struck my odd sense of humor as funny as well. In fact, I did try to have Spectrum make that pun at the end of "One From the HART" in Spec #18.

(Of course I'm the guy who did titles like "Fangs for the Memories" and "Out for Blood" stories involving Vampires!)

Guest shots seemed to be what the S7/6 did primarily. Basically, we went with the 3 NPC teams that Muskateer created when we combined. Those being the Guardians, Superior Seven, & the Freedom League. Since the Freedom League was in the Avengers' backyard, I ended up adding more details to them since I was the one going to be using them more. Much of what readers know about the League is new, as are most of the membership. A few were carried over from before: Microwave, Brute, Speedster, & FIST. The rest were other people and they were more your standard hero team originally, and not a corporate group.

The Guardians were based in LA with XF, so they fell under Muskateer's turf. I used the West Coast Avengers in my old stuff, and we pretty much ended up combining those 2 groups in the revamp. At the same time some of the less interesting members were dropped. Perhaps less interesting is the wrong choice of words, but rather those folks who just weren't used as much would be better.

That left the S7. For the most part, they are the same as before, just fleshed out better in the revamp. The Ranch and DUKE were part of the new stuff. About the only other change I can think of was that Maverick was the originally the team leader, not Captain Lightning. After we merged, I did use the Sorceress quite a bit as she was linked with the Enchantress. Some of the other S7 folks turn up in XF later on.

Not sure what's going to happen with the Protectors. That MODULE came out late in the game and was never run. So thus far adding the Protectors in has been a retro-active kind of thing. Much like adding the Champions. :wink:

As for the other 2 (now 3) mini-series:

Operation: Annhiliation - to be used on the site it would require a major overhaul. We haven't decided one way or the other if this one will be done or not.

The Domino Effect - I do know that Muskateer wants to try and do this one over, so it's a case of wait and see. The problem with the original was that he started it and then seemed to get stuck. I came along and finished it without any real idea what he was trying to do. This was also done early in the game and has a great many comic book characters featured in it. The beginning might be the same in a redo, but I would bet the ending would be vastly different!

Pyramid of Darkness - This one will be redone, but based on the timeframe we've already given, its over a year away game time! Some of Lost Heroes is based on this scenario. Specifically Dr. Destroyer's attack on the world was based on PoD. I did do Pod on Q-Link, so it can be done. In fact, at least 1 seed of it has already been planted. :twisted:

Come Endless Darkness - This one would require massive changes to work. Mainly because it was based on comic book material. Specifically the Great Darkness Saga in the Legion of Superheroes. So, I'm not holding out much hope for this one. Although, the character of Lady Darkness was partually created to fill the void of the main villain here.
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Post by Muskateer »

One of the things I was going to touch on was that we changed a lot of the characters Secret Identities from our original writing to the new version.

Spinnerette went from Diana to Victoria (or Tori). The main reason was that everyone seemed to pair up with someone who had the same first letter of their first name. In this case, it was Densie (Morning Star). So we made the change to something more California-ish. Actually there was even a change with Tori, and those of you reading this site for a long time may have noticed it, when Morning Star was calling her Vicki instead of Tori. But we ended up editing and writing that out on the site!

Shockwave was originally Julie Berkowitcz. But we had enough J's and there was a college friend of Icy's named Julie also later on. With the 3 J's from YC added, her name definitely needed to be changed. Changed the Jewish last name to a Jewish first name.

Blizzard's first name used to be Greg and is now Thomas. No idea why we made that change.

Black Diamond had a few different names (including the hero identity of Ms. Marvel on this site): Carol Danvers, Linda Danvers and finally Linda Taylor currently. Mostly her changes were due to being based on an existing comic heroine. When she became Linda in the old stuff, there was a Carol (her sister) who became Binary and all that's been written out.

Supreme was named especially for this site. He was based on an existing comic hero and used his name and real name in the old stuff.

Firestar was originally known as Sunturion when she started out and changed her name and costume later. That was written out. Her name was also different and I can't remember it right now.

The character that Guardian Angel was based on had a different name - Kristen Wells.

Those are the ones that come to mind at the moment. 8)
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Post by Spectrum »

Spinnerette went from Diana to Victoria (or Tori). Actually there was even a change with Tori, and those of you reading this site for a long time may have noticed it, when Morning Star was calling her Vicki instead of Tori. But we ended up editing and writing that out on the site!
That's because someone who shall remain nameless forgot to tell me that she preferred being called Tori to Vicki when her first name was changed to Victoria from Diana. :wink:
Black Diamond had a few different names (including the hero identity of Ms. Marvel on this site): Carol Danvers, Linda Danvers and finally Linda Taylor currently. Mostly her changes were due to being based on an existing comic heroine. When she became Linda in the old stuff, there was a Carol (her sister) who became Binary and all that's been written out.
Nope, Ms.M/Di was always Linda. Carol was her sister as Binary until the merger when that was dropped. Carol became her non-powered sister after the merger and then was complete dropped in revamp.
Supreme was named especially for this site. He was based on an existing comic hero and used his name and real name in the old stuff.
Basically Wonder Man, but not as whiny. (Well thats the way he was portrayed in the mid-80's!)
Firestar was originally known as Sunturion when she started out and changed her name and costume later. That was written out. Her name was also different and I can't remember it right now.
As Sunturion, Firestar's costume was like Dark Phoenix's. Her first name was Donna with Cassandra as the middle name. Everyone called her Cassie and eventually Donna was dropped completely. Ironically, Cassie was originally older and the writer of romance novels! Way back in Avengers #3 on the website where Lightburst is 'helping' Firestar unpack and find her collection of romance novels. In the scene he says, "Passions Fire? You actually read this junk?". In the old stuff her original reply was, "No, I write it!"

Oh, and Lightburst was originally called Flare.

As noted elsewhere, Guardian Angel was originally Lady Diamond and then Superwoman before that. Kristen Wells was Supes SI, just like in the comics, and so was changed. She's evolved quite a bit away from her roots!

Here's an interesting quote that I made as Spectrum in a mail to Muskateer way back as part of my reply to what happened in XF #3 Old Stuff version. It concerns my thoughts on Whitney:
It's hard to say about her, she doesn't seem to have much personality of course it could be that I never noticed. I am grateful for all the help she's given me and will gladly help her out again if need be.
I guess that says it all! Spec also did state that he was more intersted in a heroine than a norm and this is where Jackie Carter came in. This was also where I learned a secret that Muskateer had never told me until recently that I never knew or even guessed! Stay tuned!
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Post by Muskateer »

Quote:
Spinnerette went from Diana to Victoria (or Tori). Actually there was even a change with Tori, and those of you reading this site for a long time may have noticed it, when Morning Star was calling her Vicki instead of Tori. But we ended up editing and writing that out on the site!

That's because someone who shall remain nameless forgot to tell me that she preferred being called Tori to Vicki when her first name was changed to Victoria from Diana.
Well, other people were calling her Tori! :P
Nope, Ms.M/Di was always Linda. Carol was her sister as Binary until the merger when that was dropped. Carol became her non-powered sister after the merger and then was completely dropped in revamp.
Are you sure even going back to the hand written stuff? I recall both Cassie and BD having name changes for their SI's.
As Sunturion, Firestar's costume was like Dark Phoenix's. Her first name was Donna with Cassandra as the middle name. Everyone called her Cassie and eventually Donna was dropped completely.
Well, Musky was the one who called her Cassie, since this was her first name that was used. In the writing, she says her name is Donna Marie Sheppard. Although her name changed from Sheppard to McLean when she found out who her real parents were. We changed her name to Cassie on the re-do 'cause I liked that better and it's what we started with. She was being called Donna even at the end of the Defenders. Firestar and Musky even dated a bit at first. This had to be changed a little, since she was now a minor. But that's a story for the Avengers section!

And I have lots of secrets that never completely came to light. Too bad I forget some of them now! :wink:
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Post by Spectrum »

Well, other people were calling her Tori!
They might have been in the stuff you were writing, but I didn't remember/didn't know it when I was writing things and thats where the Denise calling her Vicki stuff came from. Which caused a lame explaination and then a complete edit when we transfered to the new site.
Are you sure even going back to the hand written stuff? I recall both Cassie and BD having name changes for their SI's.
Well, about as sure as I can be about any of this. The handwritten stuff is long gone after it was transfered to the computer. Maybe there was something else very early, but she ID'd herself as Linda Danvers in Avengers #1. (Well in the 2nd draft at the very least.) That'll be explained more indepth later on.
Well, Musky was the one who called her Cassie, since this was her first name that was used.
Well, it might now be the case of being so ingrained (and it still was part of her name) that I might have applied retroactively back to far. She's Cassie now which is all that really matters. Mclean is the name of her half-brother Phantasm which is where that came from. Someday she's going to have to actually met this guy! At this point, there's really no reason for her to change names so she'll stay as Sheppard.

Musky is right that Firestar did say her middle name was Marie. Obviously it was either forgotten about or changed on purpose. Don't remember which. I'm betting the former since I've found at least 3 different middle names for Ms. M alone! (Cathrine, Jane, & Susan-- take your pick!) I believe that Susan is the current correct one.

Boy, are we confused! :shock:
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Post by fanchergw »

Sounds like Pyramid of Darkness should prove to be a good addition to the site - whenever ya'll get around to doing it. The tie-in to LH should be particularly interesting.

Sounds like Firestar has had a long and fascinating history. I had always assumed that she was based on the Marvel character of the same name (back when she was associated with the New Mutants and Hellfire Club), but it appears that may not have been the case. BTW, have we seen her half-brother Phantasm yet? I don't recall anyone appearing here by that name.

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Post by Muskateer »

Pyramid of Darkness (or PoD as we lovingly called it) should be done even better this time based on the improvement factor we have embarked on. 8) And what we see with LH connection will blow everyone away, I am certain! :wink:

Firestar really had nothing to do with the Marvel character, as far as I know. She didn't start with the same name and changed it to better fit her powers. We just updated things in the re-do and wrote out the Sunturion part. Her costume is based on a character from a small comics company (which eludes me) and was in a group called Fem Force, I think. I may be wrong.

Firestar is a great character who has undergone some developmental changes over the years. If things had gone differently, Musky and Cassie could have been an item. It almost happened! Will touch on the reasons in the Avengers section! :roll:

Boy, are we confused! :shock:
As you all can see, we each have our own take on the past and we both are wrong about things and don't even realize it! In any case, what you see on the site now is as official as it gets and the rest is just the history that led us here. Still we have had a lot of a fun along the way! :D
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Post by Spectrum »

I vastly improved on PoD even when I ran it on Q-Link as compared to the original. So, yes, it should be a hum-dinger! By the way, there have been a few mainstream tie ins with LH. But they may not have been realized as such. :twisted:

Phantasm has yet to appear. In fact, I think he only appeared once in the old stuff in a later issue of X-Factor. Cassie's Blood family aspect wasn't played up as much in the old stuff. In fact, where we ended in the Old Stuff, Cassie was no longer a Blood.... How's that for for leaving you hanging? :shock:

No, Firestar really wasn't based on the Marvel Character at all, other than some similarity with powers. No more than the Enchantress being based on Clea because of the similar looks/costumes. Firestar's costume is one of those things I do want to change, as it's based on someone else's (I think the name was something like Stardust? :?: :?: ). Apart from the costume, there is no connection to that other character whatsoever.

In fact, to even further confuse things, there was a completely different version of Firestar in the Q-Link stuff! (Same powers, but completely different person.) How's that for another cryptic reference? :wink:
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Post by fanchergw »

Sounds like PoD could prove to be a real winner. I'll be looking forward to it - though it's likely to be quite a ways off from the sound of things.

It's been a long time since I looked at that module, but I seem to recall that Phantasm of the Blood wasn't a particularly nice guy. Has that affected Firestar's outlook at all?

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Post by Spectrum »

Yeah, PoD is a VERY long way off. I believe that LH targetted it for July of '87 and we're in May of '86. We've advanced about 2 months in the last 5 years, so I may be collecting social security by the time we get to that one!

It depends when you look in on Phantasm if you can call him a nice guy or not. We're using him near the end of his history, where he's calmed down a bit and isn't so vindictive to people. Doing more with Firestar and her family is one of those things I want to cover more in the Avengers, time and space permitting. At this point Firestar isn't sure what to make of her half-brother since she's not met him yet.
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Post by Muskateer »

Spectrum wrote:Yeah, PoD is a VERY long way off. I believe that LH targetted it for July of '87 and we're in May of '86. We've advanced about 2 months in the last 5 years, so I may be collecting social security by the time we get to that one!
Things are not moving as quickly for us as in the past that's for sure! We had more gaps in things the first time around too. Haven't had many of those as yet.

And Specs, if we continue with 5 years = 2 months, you'll only be 73 when we get to PoD! :shock: :shock:
Last edited by Muskateer on Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Spectrum »

Just need to get to a point where we can allow some time to pass. Everything's been tightly clumped together as of late. I'm sure that it won't take quite as long as the 34 years from now Muskateer is suggesting. Notice that he says that I'll be 73-- he will be too! :D

I'm sure Pod will be in the books by the time I'm 60.

Of course, we could make it a paysite and we could charge you guys. Then I could quit my day job and write full time.

Yeah, I know. DREAM ON! :wink:
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Post by fanchergw »

I'm sure that it won't take quite as long as the 34 years from now Muskateer is suggesting. Notice that he says that I'll be 73-- he will be too!
Heck, I'll be 76! :shock: I don't think I can wait that long - hell, I may not even live that long.

Better get crackin', cause you don't want any deathbed curses as a result of that story not being up. :twisted:

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Post by Spectrum »

Now that is some incentive! :D

Unfortunately, I'm only halfway throught Muskateer #26 at this point. Back to work I guess!
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34 years

Post by Bruce »

Better get started on that story.... in 34 years I'll be 77! :cry:
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Post by Muskateer »

Somehow, I think we'd all have a different perspective on these stories in our 70's! Hard to imagine... :shock:
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